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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 

Poor Feedback!


I've received surprisingly negative feedback from this post.

Juice wrote:

"a tight passive passive player is the definition of a calling station!

Dont be proud of such things! you are better than that!"


And an anonymous poster (who I suspect might have been Juice!) wrote:

"Either way edge its pretty rank!"

Isn't Poker about winning? What is the point in trying to emulate the professionals' style of play if it doesn't work at the tables that you play at?

In Helmuth's Play Poker Like the Pros, he recommends jamming the pot (in Limit Poker) with 77. Yet any of us know that there'll probably be overcards on the flop, and that you'll therefore face the tough decision about whether or not you face a higher pair when you miss your set on the flop.

Anyway, a hand from last night, at Laddies $0.10/$0.20 NL.

I was in late position with 54o and limped in.

The flop was J54 with no flush draw. The action was checked to me. So what I needed to worry about was a straight draw. I bet the pot and dealer+1 re-raised me.

What could he have? I didn't really fear sets of 4's or 5's, as the chances of someone having those were so slim. Only an idiot would call with something like J4 or J5 so the chances of those hands were slim too. A set of Jacks was a definite possibility. But any monkey playing attempting to emulate the "tight-aggressive" style would have raised pre-flop with them. I therefore put my opponent on AJ.

The turn was a King. The action was checked to me. So I decided to bet the pot again and was re-raised all in (calling the all in was only a tiny bit more than my bet).

The river was a 3, which failed to improve the villain's AJo, and I therefore took down the pot.

Nice! Or did the villain have something like QJo? Who knows. The only thing I didn't like about this hand was the fact that I only started with $15 of my original $20 buy in. As I could have taken an extra $5 if I'd been full. SMT SMT.


Comments:

 

# MiasDaddy wrote at 10:18 PM :

only 5$ Mr Edge - don't get too greedy now!

And as for Juice - I agree with you - surely it's the winning that means the most (you'd lose a fortune moving all in with 77 at 10c level)? Playing the professional game at low, NL tables I don't think is the right strategy.
Where his point is valid, is if you want to move up the levels, then you are in trouble playing this style.
 

# butroz wrote at 10:26 PM :

Tight passive passive doesn't make you a calling station, but I still don't think it's the way to go.

Not sure about calling with 45o either, even in late position.

Betting and raising to deny odds to someone drawing isn't just about forcing them to fold. If they are behind and call with incorrect odds you're making money (in the long run) regardless of what happens in the individual hand.

And as a wise man once told me, minimum raises make the baby jesus cry.

Sorry, unlike Juice, I dont mean to be rude or negative, but you've got to be aggressive.
 

# The Edge wrote at 1:58 PM :

Unfortunately I'm not a religious guy. So making the baby Jesus cry holds no qualms for me.

Oh. Does he still count as a baby? Or is that only over Christmas?
 

# Juice wrote at 1:54 PM :

I actually retracted the calling station comment.

However i do think playing tight passive passive is just inviting people.

Sometimes in poker and in life you have to draw a line in the sand and make a stand!
 

# Juice wrote at 1:56 PM :

Also havent you ever heard the term "play the player not the cards" if you let the cards and maths dictate your play you will miss out on opportunities to make profit. You must be able to take advantage of players weakness!
 

# The Edge wrote at 4:58 PM :

"play the player not the cards"

That's just a cliche. At the levels we play at, there's a good chance that the opposition won't even know what they're doing. You've seen Colm counting his fingers in home games. I'm pretty sure plenty of our opponents are doing the same.
 

# butroz wrote at 9:40 PM :

Counting on your fingers in a live game is a bit of a give-away! but I think at our level a lot of online players aren't even aware that there's anything they should be counting.

But anyway, (selectively)agressive play is BOTH mathematically and psychologically correct.

...and if he can be god the father, son and holy ghost all at the same time (and christianity is monotheistic?) then he can be a baby too. And passive play just makes him sad.

If you won't do it for jesus then do it for ceiling cat.
 

# Juice wrote at 3:46 PM :

cliches often have an element of truth.

Besides why would you want to play AA againgst 5 opponents. You drop your odds to 38%.
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